unity across
 

as coaches and men we have talked about unity across the nation, well here is our chance. at miggle I soke with a lot of coaches about the weigh thing. some leagues want 4.0 and some want to stay at 3.2 or 3.3.
well let's look at it. in the BAMAblast you have pro's at 4.0 and college at3.2
SEAWALL BRAWL at 3.2 and the college series at 4.0. well unless you have plenty of time and money to build teams, you go.
next week LAEFL meets we are shooting for 3.5.
when this whole weigh thing got started DIRK AND REGGIE said let's go 3.2 while unlimited started at 4.0. so if we go 4.0 we are back weer we started and where does it stop. lot's of ways to look at this post, but for us to come together as one, we need to agree on one weigh so that we can have one team to play anywhere without worrying about weigh.
just my help trying to put this thing together.
if you want to contact me 702 217 6515



BRONCOMAN

Well Spoken

Y NOT...???
 

Let's just pump it up to an even, Steven...10.0 grams!!!! Then we can use the cake toppers and NOBODY feels left out. Just a thought.

Let it go Mike!
 

Let it go Mike. You are a good man. You have been traveling and competing at the highest level in various tourneys, styles of play, and conventions for over 10 years now. You are one of the winningest coaches on the EF/MF circuit. Although you have not won a championship other than "Duel in the Desert", I think you are the top coach on the scene when it comes to winning pct., styles of play, and tourneys participated in. It can not be said about many...but it can definetly be said about you...Mike Turner is a great EF/MF player, who does not have a huge ego, and claim that he is the greatest to ever play the game. You actually show up to tourneys and play, not afraid that if you lose, that your legacy will be tarnished. After being in this for 10 years (at this level), I have determined that my time is too precious to waste on characters who will never change, or meet half way to bring the hobby together. My advice to you Mike is to let it go, and do your thing. The EGOS will never allow these guys to come together and do what is best for the hobby. We have made several attempts to reach out, but to no avail. We're getting older, not younger, but yet we keep facing the same old stale stuff...IT:S MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY, I"M THE BEST EVER, BUT I DON"T & HAVENT COMPETED AGAINST ANOTHER HUMAN IN YEARS, BECAUSE I'M TOO GOOD, I DON'T PLAY BOILED, IF I CAN'T BEAT IT BAN IT, & NOW...3.2 -V- 4.0. Life is tooooooooo short for all of the nonsense. Mike...get down with your boys in the LAEFL, & PAC 10 (CBSMF), BUILD IT, AND THEY WILL COME...IF NOT...WHO NEEDS EM. Let them continue to bicker, argue, and divide...OH YEAH...and NOT do what we all say it is all about...CREATE LEAGUES, PLAY GAMES & HAVE FUN!

out of the box
 

I admire the customizers, the innovators, and the entrepreneurs who have introduced ways and formats to enhance this great game we play.
The guy who I think is forgotten is the one we really and truly need.

The guy who goes to the department store and sees a game, where only Miggle and Excalibur market on a national scale in stores.
He or She goes out and buys a game for their child, or husband who talked about it in his sleep . :-)

What they get is what is the standard in this hobby. No matter what is favored by what league or individual who sells or uses other styles.
The guy out of the box , if a census was taken of little men, is the vast majority of figures and game boards that iare out there to play with.

That being said , and is said as my humble opinion, it does not take anything away from the enhanced figures available or the incredible realistic styles of play that we know exist for those who enter the hobby.

I think the game is purchased as a toy for the most part. Unfortunately like toy soldiers or slot cars. The companies that sell them on the national market did not elaborate the hobby aspect until Mike and Delayne decided to put the dvd in their sets for Miggle. But even that does not introduce the buyer into enhanced players that are available. They only can find them on the internet where we are the most popular site for the hobby.
Without Buzzball, FF.com, and of course Miggles forum and events we would be a scattered bunch without cause.

MFCA membership gives cause to keeping the flame burning and a place to see how this game , purchased by most as a toy, is REALLY a great hobby to be involved in both for the child and the Adult.
I know how we really are big kids acting as adults , most apparent during tournaments and league games. Heck, that is sort of why a lot of us play.

I think if we had a rule set to offer the guy out of the box so he did not have to invest another dime to get a view of how much fun this game really is, we would be doing our hobby a great service.

The problem that seems to arise is the us vs. them discussions.
If I were the guy out of the box, I would be confused, turned off, and would feel like I were not even on the same page. This is like the exact opposite of the intention of most who post their favoritism for a particular format.

The MFCA does not want to endorse any particular rule set but to expand the awareness of the different aspects of our hobby that are available.
If we had an out of the box set of suggested rules and simple ideas to enhance the game for , lets say the guy who is looking at the excalabur game right now and sort of thinks that this is just like when he was a kid. He lines them up ,and whats up with that square dancing the guys are always doing ? They always go where they want to go, not where the guy intended them to go, and that is soon to be the attic or basement or garage sale.

Just a thought. That guy would have to go on the internet and find us in the first place. What he finds will determine if his mind is turned on or turned off to what fun this can be is he can just figure out how to get those darn guys to do what he wants. If he can do that, he will surely want to expand his horizons and then be better informed on what is being talked about on this forum.
For most out of the box guys, we are way over their heads.

I think in fishing for larger fish, you often fish for bait first.
And for those who have invested in the great innovations, boards, men, bases, you will then create a larger market for your wares. Those involved in leagues, more interested coaches who will want to be a part of this.

Just thoughts when I should be working on my job!:eek:

RS

Ed. .......
 

well put....

Ed
 

Very well put.....ppls$ ppls$ ppls$

I think The MFCA has us on OUR way to possibly UNIFYING this hobby but it is up to "US" to make it happen...We have so many GREAT MINDS IN THIS HOBBY......"ONE DAY MAYBE WE CAN ALL BURY THE HATCHET"...... AND LET THE "TOY" DO THE TALKING....

I HAVE PUT "THE MAN LAW" DISCUSSED AT THE BRAWL LAST YEAR INTO PLAY AND HOPEFULLY IRONED OUT ANY MISUNDERSTANDINGS THAT I MIGHT HAVE HAD AND I STILL HAVE ONE CALL TO MAKE OUT TO ILLINOIS AND THEN I WILL BE DONE......

LETS PUT OUR DIFFERENCES ASIDE AND TAKE THIS HOBBY TO THE NEXT LEVEL........THE MFCA CONVENTION COULD BE THAT "ALL STYLES UNDER ONE ROOF" EVENT THAT WE HAVE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR........ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ ppls$

We keep talking about a basic rule set. I think we already have one, the original Tudor rules. The problem is they are majorily outdated. Does anybody have the Tudor rules typed out in a word doc? What I beleive the MFCA rule set should be, would be based directly off of the Tudor rule set but updated to include some of the innovations that are out there. Call them Tudor 2010 or 2010 Tudor. The basics are pretty much the same as they always have been but the weights and other aspects have changed. I am for a MFCA rookie coach rule set. I doubt that any of us would like playing by this rule set but they would be the foundation and standard for many to begin from. The next problem is, who is ever going to see them unless they are included in the boxes that Miggle and Excalibur send out.

I would like to see the weight issue put to rest and that requires a solution. Boxing, wrestling, and many other sports have different weight catagories. Model railroading has different size classifications. Couldn't his be as simple as saying, 3.3 and under is class X and 4.0 and under is class Y and anything over that is class Z. I personally feel that if you are going to go to 3.5 why stop there. Just make it 4.0 and be done with it. Is 3.3 that dramatically different from 3.5? Is 3.5 that dramatically different from 4.0? I think there should be a standard way to weight figures or bases also so that we are not all over the board on this and that weighting set should be sold by somebody.

Along with this we should establish a maximum height from the floor to the top of the helmet so that we don't start seeing anything taller than what is already out there. Once it goes beyond the height limit it is no longer condsidered miniature football.

Of course all of this would be MFCA standards and then when Coach Association 2 starts up because they think our MFCA standards are bogus we could see another tear in the fabric of miniature football.

4.0 anything else goes.......
 

.......If you can agree on a weight and stick with it, the ruleset will fall right in place. Mike you and I have known each other for quite sometime bro and you are still a force against 4.0 and I don't know why. The CBSMF is 4.0 and you are still playing. So what are you bringing up this matter bro. We are playing 4.0 in the CBSMF Mike if you don't like then you have to make a choice!!!

HERE WE GO...
 

Let's do this: Someone draw up a chart of all of the basics that make us all similar and then the things that differentiate us. Ya know how they compare HDTVs or microwaves or video games or almost everything we consume. I think Steve Martin eluded to this one of the last go 'rounds. Can somebody say, "six degrees"? I knew that you could. [End of rant]

LET ME SAY THIS ABOUT THAT.
 

coaches


I agree with broncoman and kotixblack 100 katrillion percent on this topic. It is very annoying to hear someone say "were playing 3.2 ". here is why,
The world has changed wether you want it to or not. coaches around the country have adopted the 4.0 weight class as there play of choice. coaches DO NOT HAVE the disposable income to keep ping ponging between 3.2 and 4.0 when they want to play in a league or tourney. Someone could have a 4.0 team ready to play and an upcoming tourney requires them to play at 3.2. NOW THEY MUST CREATE AN ENTIRE NEW TEAM TO PLAY IN A TOURNAMENT FOR 2 DAYS. Do you know how costly it is to have someone make your team. Do you know how much work it is to make your own team. WE DO NOT HAVE TO PLAY BY THE SAME RULES BUT I THINK A STANDARD WEIGHT COULD ALLEVIATE SOME HEADACHES IN MAKING YOUR TEAM. " WHAT ABOUT MAKING YOUR TEAM 4.0 AS THE MAX. MAKE ANY PLAYER YOU WANT UP TO 4.0. WITH THIS KNOWLEDGE ACROSS THE BOARD, IF YOU MAKE YOUR LINEMAN 3.2,3.5,3.7 (THATS ON YOU) " you knew the weight was dangerous when you took the job"

The reluctance of one person can affect the decision of 30 coaches. You can have 30 coaches saying yeah were going to play 4.0. But if the league commisioner or tourney head say no, we play 3.2 here, that puts a damper on coaches who want to play in your tourney. 4.0 has been around for many years and it is here to stay. It should be the weight cap because so many have been playing at this weight for years. coaches are bumping there miggle big men, buzzball figures and haiti repro's up to 4.0. So it's not based on one paticular set of figures. The notion to have coaches cut, drill, shave etc etc there players to get to a paticular weight is ridiculous. When you can stick a nut or bolt under the base. COACHES JUST LIKE THE FEEL OF THE HEAVIER PLAYER.

If you are still hell bent on playing 3.2 then it sounds like you are not willing to conform with todays world. 3.2 is so 15 years ago. If you have 20 coaches wanting to move up in weight and you dont, it sounds personal. It sounds like you have your 3.2 teams ready to your liking and you WILL NOT CHANGE THEM FOR ANYONE. Like kotixblack said, it turns into a my way or the highway mentality. WHAT YOU DONT REALIZE IS YOU JUST TOLD 20 COACHES TO TAKE THE HIGHWAY.

Please understand, IT'S A DIFERENT WORLD RIGHT THIS VERY SECOND. 15 YEARS AGO, how many people did you see walking down the street with cell phones, how mny people did you see zipping past you on the highway in a SUV. VERY SOON YOU MUST CONVERT YOUR TELEVISION OVER TO DIGITAL, (EVERY HOUSEHOLD). No one is saying get rid of 3.2 but you must incorporate heavier figures to go WITH TODAY'S TIMES. COACHES WONT ADMIT IT BUT THIS PING PONGING WEIGHTS IS VERY TIRING AND UNNECESARY. What is the big deal in bumping your player up a few grams if you want. Broncoman is right in wanting unity in the weight class. Coaches like the feel and performance of a 4.0 fig when you guys turn the boards up so high. I fell both weights should accomadate the hobby as a whole. Not say no to one because you personally like the other.

TIL THIS VERY DAY, NO ONE HAS GIVEN ME A VALID REASON WHY THEY WILL NOT GO PAST 3.2. YOU CAN'T USE FIELD PERFORMANCE BECAUSE I SAW BOTH LIVE IN THE FLESH. "THE RUN PRETTY CLOSE TO THE SAME.

REMEBER, ONE OR TWO GUY'S REFUSAL TO MOVE UP IN WEIGHT ONLY WILL CLOSE THE DOOR IN THE FACES OF MANY WHO LIKE BOTH.


ATT WEIRDWOLF AND JIMBO, WHAT IS THAT WEIGHT CLASS BREAKDOWN YOU GUY'S POSTED AT ONE POINT, THEY WERE VERY SIMILAR. CHECK OUT WOLF'S mfca COACHES CHALLENGE WEIGHT BREAKDOWN.

I AM NOT GETTING ON ANYONE, IT JUST BOTHERS ME WHEN BOTH ARE NOT ALLOWED ON A TEAM.

*** WHY DOES A COACH HAVE TO SAY, "I HAVE A 3.2 TEAM" OR "I HAVE A 4.0 TEAM", WHEN HE CAN SIMPLY SAY (I HAVE A TEAM)

MANTARAYDRE

My two cents on the subject
 

I am with Wolf, George Diamond and Ed Roche...first we just need to stop fighting about 4.0 vs. 3.2. This line of discussion and bickering is counter productive and serves no purpose other than to complicate things for a new coach....and quite frankly sometimes it has become childish. Let's just have weight classes and be done with it...or why can't we have weight classes would be a better statement?

We need a very simple unified rule set for a new coach...and I for one am going to do something about it. It is my belief that the tudor rules should be the starting point and perhaps we add some very basic updated rules to this set to bridge the gap between the newbie and older coaches...

That is it...that is what it is all about...bridging the gap...bringing people up to speed...whatever you want to call it...the MFCA is about promotion and helping the new coaches along. I had the privilege of meeting two new coaches at the Miggle Convention and let me tell you...all of this discussion confuses the hell out of them...

So here is what we are going to do...with Wolf's permission I would like to start on a basic rule set...I like Wolf's idea...we should call it the "Basic 2009" ruleset. We will start with Tudor game rules...people will make suggestions...I will type up the results...then at the 2009 MFCA convention I will include it in the "Book of Rules" and guys from all around the country can try it out and tweak what needs tweaked. In the mean time I will send a copy to new coaches and let them try them out to give us some feedback....

Any opinions on this proposal?

Just trying to get the ball rolling to move the hobby forward...as for 3.2 vs. 4.0...hell...the HHEFL would prefer to go SMALLER instead of larger...to have a scale board you need a really big house! Anyone ever consider going 2.3 grams...anyway...the debate will continue...debate is good...let's just not forget about the new coaches out there in this discussion...

So are we as an association of 200 members ready to set a standard that essentially will be the definition of what miniature football is? That is what we are really creating. Once we set that standard anything else becomes something other than miniature football.

Here is what we have currently.
The MFCA defines Miniature Football as: Miniature football players on bases which are propelled over a miniature football field through the vibration created by an attached electric motor.

Now, we take this and layout size specifications and define classes. If we can we do this without chopping each others heads off in a open discussion then let's begin.

Maximum heigth from floor to top of helmet is....?
How many divisions and reasons for why these should exist?
3.3 and under
4.0 and under
4.1 and over
What do we name these divisions.

Here is a start....let's hear the discussion.

Here are some suggestions...
 

Boxing has several weight classes...here are some examples...

Cruiserweight, Junior Heavyweight, Light Heavyweight, Super Middleweight, Super Welterweight, Super Featherweight, Super Flyweight, Junior Bantamweight, Super Heavyweight...and on and on.

The constant terms are Super, Junior, cruiser and Light.

Put that with welterweight, middleweight, featherweight, bantamweight, flyweight and heavyweight...

So let's take these and come up with three weight classes...

Question is...where does the weight difference make a difference in gameplay?

I used to think "Big Men" figures were better than regular figures...but weight makes no difference...too me anyway...

Dre.........
 

....well said on the weight issues!!!!

You guys remind me of our powerlifting federations.

Used to be when I started competing in 1975, it was just one federation and based on weight class limits. Then we started separating based on gear vs. raw, steroids vs. non-steroids, etc. Then we started having different divisions which included 3 teen divisions, 4 or 5 or 6 master divisions. Add to this that we went from 1 federation to about 20+ just in the U.S., each with their own National and World Champions and World Records.

I have been a big proponent of lessening the divisions and champions, being published in our sports premier magazine. Also, I just ran a meet that was "open" competition only; no separate divisions.

Point is...I see the same thing happening here as well. Before you know it, you have 15 different styles of play with different limits and rules. You have Miggle vs. shootout vs. multi stop. You have 3.0 vs. 3.5 vs. 4.0. Passing sticks vs. no passing sticks, etc.

This makes it very difficult for people to want to play. Even though I'm a relatively newbie in EFL, I can tell you from experience in my powerlifting career, you will become so diluted that you will eventually turn away prospective players.

This was the point I was trying to make in one of my first threads when I joined this site. With so many different rules sets, limits, etc., how can I know how to create a team? In the case of Miggle, it's their product and their tournament. So they can have all their own rules. No problem there.

But when it comes to other leagues and tourneys, you have different limits, figures that are allowed, types of bases that can be used, etc. If I buy a BB figure that I'm using for a shutdown corner, I can't even use him in some leagues because his hands are spaced too far apart. Well how ridiculous is that? Now I have to be a good customizer to make sure my standard stock pose player falls within certain limits.

Personally, I think 4.0 is a good limit. I've just started painting figures and have found that some of the FF figures are already near that limit and I don't even have them decaled or have finish coats on them yet.

Anyway, that's my shpeel for the day.

WOLF, SILV AND THEE mf commun
 

all,

I am with you on getting to the bottom of this in a civilized manner.


I think we should follow the boxing route but come up with our own unique names for the divisions then set it in stone. WHATEVER EVERYONE THINKS IS FAIR I AM WITH AS LONG AS IT IS ALL INCLUDED. Each tournament can run seperate weight classes if they like so everyone iscomfortable with a team they have already created.


SO COACHES, FIRE AWAY, WHAT DO YOU WANT SO WE CAN MAKE IT mfca law !!!!!!!!!!!!


MANTARAYDRE

Interesting that when the right people get behind something, then there is finally progress....

:hmmmmm:

4.0 is a good limit

Question?
 

Does anyone know who came up with these Tudor Rules?

I particularly like the "Halfback" pass option...these rules look as good as any to start...click on the link...

http://www.tudorelectricfootball.com/rules.html

any comments?

Those are not the original Tudor rules. I would be interested to know who developed those.

okay let's get this done.....

since I have played in most of the different classes, I like that idea. Since 3.2(3.3 now) was the "base-line" we mostly started with, it could be called CLASS A 3.5 to 4.0 class b; 4.1 and over class c

I understand where Broncoman is coming from, but I just build a team that is right for playing my way reguardless of weight.

I may be outta line for my feelings on this, but I believe it's up to each league and each tournament sponsor to decide on their own rules.

Yes, there should be guidelines for newcomers to the hobby to go by, then let them decide how much to invest in the hobby and to play the way they would like to play the game.

Just my 2 cents, if it's worth that much.

Yes each league and tourney would still set their own parameters. Setting the maximums for what "miniature football" is, is what this is really about. We are really defining the definition for miniature football and with this in place would hopefully keep new manufacturers or old ones from increasing the scale, sizes and weigths of the figures and bases.

Ohh, your right, your comment was really only worth about 0.63 cents on today's marjket. :D

$.0134 cents Canadian! Just kidding Mike! :nhnh:

My input
 

I've read all the interesting post on this topic here and in other threads over the past year and I must say that though there are different opinions/ideas I don't think anyone (for the most part) is wrong here. First, let me start out by saying that I'm enjoying playing at the heavier weight and would probably find 4.0 play more attractive yet I had a great time at the Miggle convention with the lighter weight.

Now...I don't think what was proposed was in anyway to install a mandatory weight for ANYONE to play at. If I heard/read correctly it was a suggestion (and a very good one) to put together a set of rules that new guys could start with. After that, they can continue with those rules or move on to a rule set or style of play that's more appealing to them. What's being proposed is a launching pad for beginners.

I would go even further and propose that MFCA contact Miggle and Excalibur, and any other manufacturers to see if we can include an insert in the games that they sell that says something to the effect:

"The Miniature Football Coaches Association congratulates you on your purchase of this EF/MF product. You have now joined the ranks of many who play this wonderful game (hobby). If you would like to learn more about rules, style of play, figures, etc. then visit us at......"

At that point they can visit the site and learn about the "basic" rule set along with the more advanced ones played by all around the country. They can determine for themselves what rules/style/weight to play at. They are exposed to all that we are exposed to without being forced to do anything. In turn, we may be able to grow our membership.

Your thoughts?

change
 

RJ, it is not that I don't like change, it is that why should coaches have to change or make a team to play in different leagues or tournaments. as I said before, the cost and time to build these teams would run high & long.
for those that have a wife, you know where I coming from.
just trying to lay down some points of interest to try to unite.
what ever they decide I will be there. I play the game for fun and camaraderie.
EROB AND RJ, I hear what you say, but when you travel like i do, ONE weigh would be good to have.

BRONCOMAN

GOLF TAPE !!!!!!!!!!
 

Wolf, you mentioned a weight system.


The best way i ever added weight to a player was using golf tape on the figure and not the base. Cut a strip and affix it under the bottom of a player then slide the base on. The only system i could think of for now is to take each and every figure, buzzball, miggle, haiti, ff.net wellington, jennings, 5-13 and add golf tape under each figure and nothing else. IT IS THE VOTE OF EVERYONE WHETHER TO ADD 1 OR 2 PIECES. (FIGURE IS PAINTED ,DECALED OFCOURSE)

1) BUZZBALL QB ( ROOKIE BASE WITH 1 OR 2 PIECES OF TAPE = THAT AMNY GRAMS) THEN DO THE SAME ON A TTC BASE.

2)FF.NET LINEMAN ( ROOKIE BASE WITH 1 OR 2 PIECES OF TAPE = THAT MANY GRAMS) DO THE SAME ON A TTC BASE.

**CONTINUE THIS FOR EVERY FIGURE**
Once every figure is measured in that manner, from there a chart can be created for everyone to have. IF YOU LIKE, A PICTURE OF EACH FIGURE COULD BE POSTED ON THE CHART ALONG WITH IT'S DETERMINED WEIGHT.
**A CONCRETE VISUAL IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS**
This could even be a standard page or section in each tweak edition if it is feasable. later on in life maybe trading cards can be made with THAT PATICULAR FIGURE features printed on the back (5-13 figure painted as terry bradshaw, he weighs *determined weight with one strip of golf tape added to fig on a rookie base*

said chart could be posted as a sticky for quick and easy access !

During league or tournament play, each coach can have this chart at there disposal. He should be able to recognize any figure on the field and know exactly what it should weigh according to the chart. Let's say something looks extremely questionable. (A FIGURE IS SUPER STRONG AND SOMETHING DOES NOT SEEM RIGHT). a coach can throw a red flag to have that player weighed. If he is heavier than what the chart allows that coach tried to add EXTRA WEIGHT. ( YOU SHOULD WEIGH YOUR OWN FIGURES AND MAKE SURE IT IS ACCURATE WITH THE CHART BEFORE YOU STEP ON THE FIELD)

GOLF TAPE IS FAST, EASY, NOT MESSY. You can buy it in various size rolls.
We can list a host of places where to but it

This would take a group of 20 to 25 coaches willing to help out on the research and report the weight back. DONT PLACE THE TAPE ON THE FIGURE WHILE DOING THE RESEARCH. JUST PUT THE FIGURE ON THE SCALE AND PLACE THE GOLF TAPE RIGHT NEXT TO IT.

maybe we can have some coaches donate a few rolls to the MFCA so a few strips could be included in the new member's package.

I LIKE HOW WOLF IS HANDLING THIS MATTER

Im with k-lo, let's get this done !!!!!!

MANTARAYDRE

Build a 3.2 team and run with that all over the country, if you are going into a 3.5 or 4.0 league/tourney, then add lead tape to get up to weight. One universal weight is a nice idea in theory but not practical and I never see this happening.

To be honest I also believe the MFCA does not need a rule set of their own. Why??? Does not make sense to me. We are not and should never be a governing body. Sure maybe I agree with a "re-do" of the old school Tudor rules to post or circulate to beginners, but nothing beyond that and the weight limit should not even be mentioned in these rules. Why do you need more rules than that? Beginners are not clueless, they know basic NFL rules already, if not, then the standard Tudor rules or DVD should apply. We are using a 30 year old TTQB still, why not stick with the old school rules as well. They are good and they are the ones we all used to start with. It ain't broke and it don't need fixing in my opinion.

I have seen and experienced a well tweaked 3.2 team hold their own against a 4.0 team with no problems. This comment is going to cause a lot of detractors to post up but it's fact. Far too much is being made of 3.2 vs 4.0, boiled vs non-boiled, etc...

Build a 3.2 squad and use weight adders if you need to.

Good discussion though.

I have new, unpainted FF Minister of Defense and Bull figures on Miggle strong bases and both weigh 3.8-3.9. Hard to play them in a 3.2 limit tournament when that's their natural weight.

Mike I feel ya.....
 

.....However 4.0 should be right for everyone. That standard across the board will make the unification.

I AGREE WITH RJ ON THE 4.0
 

Coaches,


I agree with RJ ON 4.0 AS THE STANDARD TO BRING WEIGHT UNITY. Actually 4.1 since figures seem to teader between 4.0 and 4.1. This will give a little cushion for the fig's.

THE CHANGE,

Many moons ago when a regular size superbowl is what most people played on, that field is perfect just for 3.2. The thin metal field could accomedate that weight on the figures back then. IT'S A NEW DAY IN 2009. just look at all the super sized fields we have today. 308's, watt's boards, 3924's, scale size, diamonds fields. Unless i am looking at the wrong thing, aren't these new field 10 million times better than a regular superbowl field.
It is life's natural maturation process to wan't to upgrade to something new and improved. Do you see everyone on there cell phone today, or do you see them waiting to use a pay phone. Next time you go to the mall or supermarket, let me know how many trucks and suv's you see in the parking lot. WE NOW LIVE IN A DIFFERENT ERA. Back then we heated our food up in the stove, UNTIL MR. MICROWAVE CAME ALONG. You must move with the times and not let grass grow under your feet. Not wanting to acknowledge an upgrade is equivalent to a rich star wanting to move his parents out of the old neighborhood and they won't go because they are so used to where they already are. You have to twist some of there arms to accept a bigger house.

People buy suv's because they like the extra space and the feel of riding high in there vehicle. I am also seeing cab's convert over to larger vehicle's.
Bottom line is coaches just like the weight no matter what figure they are using. You wan't to know that you made a team to your liking and that entire team can play anywhere with this new weight cap. I like what wolf is saying in regard's to setting this up and whatever comes along afterward's won't be considered in miniature football folklore. (someone wanting to introduce a weight limit of 5.0 or so). Once the cap is set in stone, IT IS LAW !
RJ is right, the unity comes with the 4.0 cap. This is because 3.2 is part of this cap. If anyone is still stuck on a 3.2 cap, this is not unity because 4.0 is NOT CONSIDERD. So i am kindly asking everyone in the community, WHICH ONE DO YOU THINK SOUNDS MORE LIKE UNITY ?

MANTARAYDRE

I too agree with 4.0 becoming the new standard, it needs to be. Unfortunately, I do not see that happening, so we have to build at 3.2 and then add weight or have multiple teams to compete in different leagues/tourneys.

A MFCA Tournament
 

There is the Buzzball tournament, Miggle tournament, Sea Wall Brawl tournament, and others. Correct me if I am wrong. There is no MFCA tournament. Given the number of members here at the MFCA. There are enough coaches here to create several leagues within the MFCA.

Allow me to imagine. Let’s say the MFCA formed 4 leagues made up of 128 coaches. Each league would be comprised of 32 teams. Each league will play at varied weights. An example would be league A would be 3.2g. League B would be 3.4g and so on. The rule set would be the same among all of the leagues. Although there are more than 128 coaches in the MFCA, I used 128 coaches as an example.

I think this would be a good approach to establishing leagues that can in some way accommodate coaches who want to play at a certain weight. The first year coach Joe Schmuckatelly might want to play at 3.2g; therefore, he will play in league A.

All of the leagues will play at the same time. At the end of the tournament, there will be four champions; one from each league. If you want, you can have playoffs among those champion coaches who will play at a specific weight, which would be announced before the regular season tournaments started. That may mean coaches would have to prepare two teams to compete; one for their specific league and one for the playoffs. Or the playoffs could be played at a later date. This would allow time for a coach to prepare a team for the playoffs.

Maurice

The Electric Coach

missing the point....
 

The figure has to be weighed separately from the base................but then again, ....................I'm tired of this debate as it seems pointless ..........because this post reruns every 6 - 7 months....:rllngs:

There is the Coaches Points Challenge (tourney)at the MFCA Convention. It was very successful last year and hopefully will be this year again.

This thread is headed many different ways. It may be time to start up two or three new threads.

Basic Rules for new coaches-update the original Tudor rules
Setting standards (height maximum-weight classes) to be applied to a definition of miniature football

Ultimately, leagues and tourneys are going to do whatever they please regardless of standards defined by the MFCA.

Because the MFCA is here to represent all forms of MF it may be virtually impossible to create a rule set that any more than a few would consider playing. The best solution for this, was and is the Coaches points Challenge. I, as president, have zero interest in turning the MFCA into a league. That was not why the MFCA was created.

We have unity! Maybe not a 100% but the fact that we have all signed on despite our differences has created a unity of sorts. No matter what we do, once one of the pilot TV shows hit the air ways, the game may lean dramatically towards whatever rules format was seen on TV.

Keep the discussion going but lets start up threads dealing with each of these subjects rather than all in one.

This is what I think we can standardize in this hobby to make it much easier...

1. Weight limit...4.1...You don't need separate weight classes. This is not boxing or wrestling.
2. Offense in dark; Defense in white
3. All bases allowed. No boiling.
4. Whatever way the figures come is acceptable.
5. Figures cannot be altered in a way that exceeds standard poses.
My logic on #4 & 5 is this...I know that Reggie's rules say that a shutdown corner's hands cannot be spaced more than .25 in. However, some figures like the BB figure exceed that. These figures would be allowed. However, you cannot create a custom corner with arms that exceed BB's corner and play it.

As far as game play rules are concerned...this is where leagues and tourneys can vary. Some may use passing sticks, others TTQB or some combination. Some may use multi-stop, others one stop. Much leeway here.

So looking at this from a new coach's point, I can now have a choice as to where I want to play based on the different rule sets. But at least I know that the only team that I can afford to put together can be played anywhere.

Hope this makes sense.

wolf good idea !!!
 

wolf,

can you seperate this like you did the rules section. That seems to be working out really well. There has been no confusion since it was created. I hope all understand this is not your typical 3.2 vs 4.0 argument. IT IS BASICALLY POINTING OUT A CHANGING OF THE TIMES IN MINIATURE FOOTBALL. I glad wolf understands were the 4.0 enthusiast are coming from. NOBODY SAID TO GET RID OF 3.2 SO IT IS NOT THE SAME ARGUMENT.

Alot of the time threads get steared in the wrong direction for no reason whatsoever. WE JUST TALKED ABOUT CHANGE. Nobody disrespected the 3.2 weight so i dont see where any of the points were missed. 3.2 was included to stay and come along. The community must think outside the box and listen to the new blood in the hobby. One or two people may think each weight is right for them. but with 200 members plus we must now listen to everyone. we cannot let the fate of miniature football rest in the hands of a few people like it was years ago. There are many coaches playing today with new ideas on how the game should be and there ideas should be heard and respected.

I think everyone should attend the MFCA convention because wolf has created the perfect set up regarding all weights and styles. THAT IS THE FIRST THING I SAW IN THE HOBBY THE REPRESENTS TOTAL UNITY. You had to be there last year to see it. NO WEIGHT OR STYLE WAS LEFT OUT. no holding teams hostage while we wen't back to our rooms. Everyone took there teams,came back and had fun playing a buffet of styles.

SO FOR THE SAKE OF THE HOBBY, PLEASE CREATE A THREADS SECTION ON THIS TOPIC TO ACCOMEDATE EVERYONE. PLEASE ALSO INCLUDE UNLIMITED WEIGHTS


THANX
MANTARAYDRE